Tom Temin: So a lot of problems. And now, as you mentioned, they are facing the deadlock group. This body did not really show sympathy for the unions of federal employees, as we have seen in the case of Social Security. So what if they say the VA got it, that you`re unhappy, that you`ll continue to record a court record beyond that? NVAC has filed a motion with the Federal Labor Relations Authority, the FSIP`s parent agency, for a stay of the decision until the ongoing dispute over several articles of the agreement and the constitutionality of the appointment of FSIP members are resolved. Ibidun Roberts: That`s right. This is the framework agreement, the locals can negotiate certain provisions locally. But it is for the general concepts on which we agree at the national level. Ibidun Roberts: That`s right. They don`t use it. Part of what we got in the price was that they had to stop using it until they negotiated with us. One would therefore think that it would be in the interest of the VA to do so quickly. But for some reason, and not for any reason, they have had a number of setbacks with this law, including some recent court rulings.

I think what they are trying to do is get benefits from the union instead of having to correct what they did before. Tom Temin: We`re talking to Ibidun Roberts, she`s a lawyer who represents the National VA Council of the American Federation of Government Employees. And back to the negotiation sessions. What is going on? I mean, you`re sitting across the street from a table in a VA lawyers` room. And the union says, let`s talk about this, this and the other. What is the other party doing? Are they whistling Dixie? Do they play cards? I mean, how do they react when you tell them these things? The Federal Service Impasses Panel (FSIP), which is made up of 10 people appointed by the president to resolve deadlocks in negotiations between agencies and unions, significantly modified the agreement in its Nov. 5 decision, ostensibly to align the employment contract with several Trump administration executive orders that govern the federal workforce. „It`s actually exacerbated by the fact that VA is unique among agencies because VA is subject to the Accountability Act,” Roberts said, making it easier and faster to terminate employees. „Now the union has less time than most other agencies to work with an employee and challenge these actions.” Tom Temin: And by the way, the number of VA employees who would report to it would be an agreement. Ibidun Roberts: According to the agreement, it would be all the employees in the VA bargaining unit, that is, just over 100. And I think 60,000 employees in the bargaining unit. For the employees against whom they have already acted, there are about 5000.

So some of them are no longer employees at this point. But for the rest of the bargaining unit, there are well over 100,000 bargaining unit employees who would be affected by these negotiations. Ibidun Roberts: Yes, we are negotiating to come back, we do not believe that the expulsion of the union by the VA was legal. Again, it was not legal, even under the order-in-council. Thus, the decree itself states that no free or discounted space should be made available to unions if it is not generally available to non-federal organizations, and this is the case here at the VA. VA allows non-federal organizations to use free space. We have given several examples in our rebuttal, such as the VA nursing organization and the senior administration of the VA, they all have free space. Even among the decrees, there should not have been any change in our space. And we really felt the consequences of being removed from the facilities, the workers don`t have access to the union. And now, during the pandemic, it`s even worse, workers have been looking for unions to know their rights, to understand how to file complaints with OSHA, to know what vacations are available to them because we just passed laws, like the FFCRA, that workers didn`t know how it applied to them. and the union was not present to talk to them. Then the VA became even more extreme than the executive decree, preventing the union from using VA emails.

Again, this limits how employees can communicate with the union when we can`t even use the government`s email address to reach employees. So we don`t think all of this is legal, and in the contract we try to get that back. Ibidun Roberts: Oh yes. The VA is therefore aiming for a ten-year agreement. We are looking for the traditional three-year agreement. There are several reasons for this. One of them is that other unions can challenge our certification after three years, but changes are also happening. And when those changes happen, we want to be able to open up the agreements and incorporate those changes. And this is especially true for VA, which has undergone a number of changes. For example, the Accountability Act is an important change that we would like to include in the agreement.

Another is President Trump`s executive order, if we had a ten-year deal, we wouldn`t be able to negotiate changes like the ones I just mentioned. A shorter duration is preferable to a duration of 10 years. Finally, the decision reduced the time available to the union to meet and represent workers by setting a limit of 0.65 hours per collective bargaining employee. That`s less than the one-hour cap per bargaining unit employee recommended to agencies in Trump`s 2018 executive order, which focuses on official time. According to the FSIP`s decision, official time cannot be used for complaints either. The committee removed several items from the agreement and reduced others, said Ibidun Roberts, who represents NVAC. Tom Temin: Besides the question of time. I think it`s related to the issue of space, time and space, it`s the offices that the union no longer has in the VA facilities – and how does that affect things and for what are you negotiating to get back to it? Tom Temin: Normally, one of the questions is how long the agreement will be in force. Is that something you disagree with? Ibidun Roberts: Well, first of all, we meet virtually. So we are as reasonable as possible with the VA who wants to meet virtually. We`ve done it, we`ve exhausted it, we expect to meet in person soon.

The other part is that the VA lawyers are not in the room. So while we believe they are advising the bargaining team, they are not really sitting at the table. So if some of these conversations arise, the VA doesn`t have an answer. In fact, they once told us that they had to go back to VA`s lawyer to find out what to do. So if they don`t even have the right people at the table to move us forward, they are already not negotiating in good faith, we need to have the right people at the table to reach an agreement, and they have not done so. They don`t whistle Dixie, but they are not able to respond. Tom Temin: Okay, and before I get into some of those details, I mentioned about a quarter of a million, I think that`s 270,000 employees at the AFGE National Council. Is there an agreement for all members of the Council? Ibidun Roberts: So what we`re looking for in the treaty is really the procedures, isn`t it? We cannot negotiate the law itself. Congress has decided that this law is appropriate, so we can only carry out the procedure. For example, the law has reduced the time limits for action against workers to fifteen days. Once the VA has given an employee the withdrawal suggestion, they have seven days to respond to that suggestion. And then within a fortnight, so eight days after responding, the VA has to make a decision.

So it really reduces the time that the union can look for evidence to help that employee and give the answer. So meet with the employee, gather evidence and formulate an answer. It really cuts the page. And if you add that the union is also not in the establishment now, I am sure we will get there, it is much more difficult to meet an employee to respond to a distance, a big change in their lives.. .